For many years Far Out have dedicated themselves to unearthing the unheard Brazilian gems. Their latest release is a reissue of Edu Passeto & Gui Tavares’ Noite Que Brincou De Lua: a super rare and largely unheard masterwork of MPB, somewhere between psychedelic folk, soul jazz, bossa nova vibes and oblique pop, with stunning arrangements and lush vocal harmonies. Time to go back to this story with one of these two protagonists, Gui Tavares.

Which part of Brazil where you born in and what were your musical influences when you started as musicians?
Edu Passeto was born in Pindorama, a very small town in the countryside of Sao Paulo state, and I was born Campinas, the second largest city of the same state. Edu moved to Campinas, where we met and worked together as musicians. As a young boy, I loved listening to Jongo Trio and the album ‘Jequibau’ by Mario Albanese and Ciro Pereira. I listened a lot to the music of French impressionist composers such as Claude Debussy and Maurice Ravel on the radio, as well as the music Milton Nascimento, Chico Buarque and Tom Jobim. Later as a teenager, I started to appreciate the music of composers such as Ivan Lins, Gilberto Gil and Caetano Veloso amongst other emergent composers. What influenced me the most when starting as a musician was the essence of the Clube da Esquina, Tropicália and Bossa Nova movements, mainly because of the sophisticated musical arrangements by Rogerio Duprat, Cesar Camargo Mariano and Wagner Tiso.

What is the story behind the ‘Noite que brincou de Lua’ record and more particularly the track “Sabia na palmeira”? Why is it so rare?
Edu and I composed around 250 songs together and played some of them at concerts and at many song contest festivals. After a couple of years on the road with our band, we decided it was about time to record an album, rather than only recording cassette tapes, which was common practice for independent musicians who didn’t have a lot of money to produce an album. With the help of the musicians from the band, we selected a few songs out of our vast repertoire. The track “Noite que Brincou de Lua” was an exception though, because it was composed only one month before we entered the recording studio.
We composed “Sabiá na Palmeira” in a moment of rare inspiration. It talks about the hope of seeing at dawn the ‘Sabiá’ bird (the song thrush) in the palm tree, which is a sign of a good day ahead. The song won and few song contest festivals we entered at that time and, because the original record was also sold abroad, this song gained international appreciation. This is a very dear song to me, so I recorded it again with a different arrangement in my 2001 album ‘Amigos & Friends’.

Sabia Na Palmeira


 

The record reached cult status among Brazilian collectors and is now being reissued by Far Out. How do you feel about it? Did you ever imagine this would happen?
When we released the album, we could never have imagined that in a distant future it would become such an appreciated record as it is today. Back in 1981, we suffered a lot because of the competition from big recording companies. We had to fight as independent musicians to find our space and earn a bit of projection and recognition as artists. In retrospect, I think the recognition among vinyl collectors worldwide and fans, is the best recompense one can have, so I feel very happy and grateful to them.

Does it offer you the opportunity to go back in studio?
It certainly does. I enjoy spending time going to studios to record my own compositions and of other artists. I’m currently working on an instrumental album with my own brand-new compositions and to me this is very exciting. What is even more exciting is that I kept a few cassette tapes from the time Edu Passeto and I were still working together. By remastering these records, where you can hear Edu’s voice, and by adding complementary instruments to the songs, we could potentially produce another Edu Passeto & Gui Tavares album.

After this record, how long did you continue to play together? When, why, did you stop this duet?
In 1986, Edu and I went our separate ways as I decided to move to Rio de Janeiro to seek new music adventures and to pursue my music career there. Edu preferred to remain close to his roots in Campinas where he lived with his new family. I was different to him in that respect as I’ve always been open to new experiences and opportunities. A few years later, we had a reunion and played together at a then traditional music venue called Mistura Fina in Rio de Janeiro. On that occasion, Edu played a few of his new songs and I played some of mine, and at the end of the show, we played songs from the album ‘Noite Que Brincou de Lua’. Then, we felt the enthusiasm of the audience and the musicians who played with us.
We continued with our individual careers, but we kept in touch whenever we could. We even tried to keep composing songs together, even though we were living in different places. Edu and I spoke on the phone several times and we created a second part for the song “Noite Que Brincou de Lua”, which is also featured in my second album. Sadly, Edu’s health deteriorated and he passed away in October 2008.

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Tell us more about your career as musician. What happened after that record?
After training as a classical guitarist, in 1986 I earned a Bachelor’s Degree in Composition and Conducting from the University of Campinas. Then I moved to Rio de Janeiro, where I developed another way of life away from my family and old friends, a way different from the one I knew at my hometown, Campinas. There, I always worked with music and with independent and other music projects – I worked writing music for TV and theatre. I continued composing and forging new partnerships with other local musicians and having many opportunities for gigs and recording music.
It took a long time to record my second ‘Amigos & Friends’ as I was living between London and Rio. The album featured musicians such as Cláudio Nucci and Mauricio Maestro (Grupo Boca Livre), as well as of other special guests like Roberto Menescal, Jose Roberto Bertrami (Azymuth), Toninho Horta, Pedro Luís, and Sabá, a musician from Jongo Trio who also had participated and contributed in the recording of the album ‘Noite que Brincou de Lua’.

You decided to relocate in London in 2003. Why this choice? A brand new departure?
I lived in Rio de Janeiro for 17 years and I felt it was about time to create new horizons for myself. I think there are no borders to music and I chose to live in England because of its cultural diversity and openness to Brazilian music. Here I was able developed new projects and carry on working with the music of my country.

Are you still in touch with Brazilian scene? What do you think about all those new pop bands, as Dharma Lovers, or Rodrigo Campos?
I go to Brazil regularly to reconnect with my musician friends, to collaborate with them and to create new music themes and ideas. This makes me stronger. When some of these musicians come to London, I try meeting them and inviting them to play and record songs with me. In his recent visit to London, Filo Machado came to the studio with me to record one of the songs for my instrumental album, which I hope will be released soon.
About Dharma and Rodrigo: They are quite different from each other by nature, but they have an interesting musical language in my point of view. The Dharma Lovers have a characteristic that reminds groups with a strong rhythm of progressive rock, but with a spiritual language in their songs, while Rodrigo Campos has that tone of samba different from the traditions of Rio and reaches unexplored places in his songs. I had the opportunity to see him at the Barbican Center playing with Elza Soares. He is a modern and amazing artist.

Fifty years after, how do you look back the Tropicalism movement: was it the beginning of a new deal for Brazilian music, which permitted many musicians, as you, to record and spread their own views about pop culture?
The Tropicalism movement was very important for future generations as it represented a break with certain old music norms and barriers. This generated an outcry by the Brazilian purists and traditionalists. For musicians, however, new movements and their forms of expressions and ideas are always welcome. The ones that were able to sign record deals became famous and their songs big hits. There have always been independent artists that followed the same trends and directions of the new movements in Brazil.

In your record, there were some critics of social conditions. How do you look the recent political evolution of Brazil? Are we going back to 1970’s, in a certain way?
Both Edu and I had very strong political and social awareness and dreamed about the reconstruction of our country, with more social justice, distribution of income and opportunities and the desire for mutual understanding amongst people. The dictatorship started at a time when Edu and I were still young boys. That imposition affected us very much. In the lyrics of our songs, we spoke a lot about nature, Brazil’s indigenous people, about the urban way of living but also did a lot of social and political critique through our music.
I think Brazil is regressing back to 1964 in many ways unfortunately. It is a certain repetition of the process that triggered all the silence and censorship imposed on every Brazilian citizen and more specifically on artists in general, since they have the most impactful social language. We both expected it to be different. I hope it does not last as long as it did at that time. I try to preserve hope and perform actions aimed at consciousness and the future, which was our philosophy (mine and Edu’s).

Click here to buy from Far Out Recording

Founded in the mid-90’s by DJ Joe Davis, the UK based record label has released mainly Brazilian music, from legends to newcomers, from samba soul to electronic scene. For us, Joe goes back to his own story, as a music lover, before to tell us more about his point of view about record business.

When did you start digging records?
Well actually since i can remember, i always had records in my hands as my eldest brother used to buy a lot of records in the 70’s and as i was growing up i had them all around me. When he kind of finished buying them, as he was collecting from about 1970 to 1980, i had taken over his collection. When i was at school he used to send me to the record shops and give me money to buy records. I seriously started digging jazz and latin records about 1984.

What LP’s did you buy at first? Do you still listen to them?
Firstly it would had been many 12’’ singles. I remember buying tracks by Mystic Merlin, Positive Force, Real Thing. When i started digging LP’s, we already had a really cool jazz dance scene in London and the UK. I think the first gig of this kind that i went to, i opened the door of the venue and Marcos Valle’s “The Crickets Sing For Anamaria” was blasting out. It was Gilles Peterson’s gig at the pub called the Belvedere Arms in Richmond, West London. I started digging those types of records and that type of music. I went to find tracks and LP’s like Jon Lucien “Mind’s Eye”, Walter Wanderley “Kee Ka Roo”, Blue Note’s and modern jazz and latin, things like Charlie Palmieri “Latin Boogaloo”. I still have most of the records and listen to them, when i have time.

Do you have a particular style or favorite period?
I really like music from 1968 (the year i was born) to about 1972. I think some incredible music was made in this period and it was before synthesizers took off in a big way.

Are you still digging, buying vinyl, visiting record shops?
Yes I always buy records everyday, many old friends selling records and i try to buy some, then i am digging where ever i go, i buy one here and one there. I am not after rare records, just great music, that’s always been the case. I find as much value in a record that i can find for £1 or one that i can find for £1000.

What was your first release on Far Out?
The first release was actually a house EP, DJ’s Jam which was like house mash-ups of disco tunes, then we done another one and a third but i was not feeling releasing just house music, so i stopped the label for a few years. I was going to Brazil to buy records a lot and i wanted to have a Brazilian label. I think our first real release at the label and in the spirit of the label was Azymuth’s first called “Carnival” and “Friends From Rio”.

What could be your editorial/esthetic line?
Brazilian Music.

What could be the label’s leitmotif?
To put out quality music all be it from Brazil for now but also we work with great electronic and jazz artists so really we want to release whatever is good within these genres.

What is the Far Out LP you are prouder?
I did not think about it. I have produced many or most or at least had a strong work and hand in most. I most proud of some of the early LP’s like Azymuth’s “Carnival”, “Friends From Rio” and “Pieces Of Ipanema”. Another is The Ipanemas “Samba Is Our Gift”, but there are many others.

Did you have any references labels when you launched Far Out ?
Yes Talking Loud, Warp, Blue Note. All of these were and are great labels.

For 25 years, have you noticed an evolution of taste on Brazilian music? How?
Yes when i started, few people know about the real Brazilian music. Many people knew about Bossa Nova, MPB and the likes of Jobim, Caetano Veloso and artists that had been released outside Brazil like Airto, Azymuth, Hermeto and others, but no one really knew the underground music from Brazil, or even the records that were recorded by the same artists in Brazil before their international commercial success.
So it has become really well known now, you can access incredible knowledge about artists and many of the records i was digging and discovering for an international market have become classics and been reissued all over the world, it’s amazing. There is a more general understanding for the music of Brazil all over the world, that’s great.

Who are the Brazilian artists still today underrated in Europe? Over rated?
Many new artists struggle to get heard. There is amazing talents over there. I love the old music and the new. There are many bands like Meta Meta who are underrated, Nomade Orchestra, then composers and instrumentalists like Antonio Adolfo have an amazing talent. Arthur Verocai is another underrated artist and arranger, even though his unique LP has now a cult status.

You have just re-released the Piri LP… A long story before you can do it ?
Yes well it was a difficult process as i needed to find him and i did, he turned out to be an amazing person and we got on really well. I had brought the masters many years ago and we did not have the time to release them as we have been so dedicated to releasing new music. When he knew we would do it, he was really into it and we are in touch about working together in the future too.

You produced the record of Philippe Baden Powell, the son of. Is it even more difficult today to defend «new» artists?
As i have said we always try to encourage artists to do new stuff, it has a lot of potential and i love the Philippe Baden Powell record and think it has a life which we want to put out there. It is a massive difficult challenge but we do try to stick to that format. I did not produce but helped him to release it. He did not need the help from me as he is a great musician and producer himself. He is living in Paris also, amazing story he has.

Far Out has released many records by Joyce, Azymuth or Marcos Valle. Is it a particular feeling to work with such legends?
I love these artists personally musically speaking and would really hope to push them all the way. I love they all became friends over the tie and done a lot of beautiful work together. In the beginning it was tough and it took some time to realize strong relations but it has really worked out and we are all great friends and have a good working friendship.

Some of your records at Far Out are now collectible items. How does it feels for a collector like you to have produced sought-after records?
For me this is a real achievement and really strong for me. I love this.

Do you always keep a box of LP’s you release at Far Out or are they some of your productions that you don’t even have archives copies?
I really don’t, i don’t even have some of them, i gave them or they sold out at the time. I am forever being asked for Global Communications remix of Azymuth, Arthur Verocai Biz on 7’’ and many more. It’s funny for me.

More generally, how is it possible now to produce new artists? A new model more «cooperative»?
It’s really tough as the CD sales have really diminished and the LP sales for a new artist is often really poor so it’s tough. The digital is not worth talking about ! Thankfully most of our artists are well established even some of the new ones like Sabrina Malheiros and Clara Moreno, Philippe Baden Powell, etc… Somehow we have managed to do ok with new artists like Nomade Orchestra but it ain’t easy.

You continue to be connected to the electronic scene. Are there any specialties in Brazilian scene?
There is always amazing artists coming from Brazil but i didn’t check for there electronic scene. The house music scene over there is a bit cheesy for me man! I am sure there are some underground artists such as Robotnik.

Nowadays, there are many LP labels who follow this model, I mean more quality even if it’s more expensive… but in same time, there are also another «new» LP market, with major companies come-back and other labels, who prefer to sell cheaper. Is it the (re)creation of two camps for the LP?
Yes i think it is. The collectors have to pay fortunes for a collectable so i think some companies have taken advantage of this and over charging for limited editions but yes you have to be competitive if you are selling music by a new artist for sure. There are 2 markets in this case.

There are more and more reissues of old LP’s, and more and more record labels (major or indie) now release their new artists on LP, or EP. Do you think that the LP reissue market could ever reach saturation point?
No it’s mad, i can’t even keep up, even within the genres i love, like jazz, soul, funk, Brazilian, i can’t keep up with it all.

What are your other next releases ?
- Sabrina Malheiros – new LP / CD – she is the daughter of Alex from Azymuth so this is a really jazz funk inspired record, we just played some shows in Paris.
– Nomade Orchestra – their second LP and they are touring Europe – again this 10 pieces collective make an excellent funky, psychedelic hotpot of sounds, awesome live and a great festival band
– Viralata self-titled LP, a limited edition LP reissue
– Arthur Verocai – “Encore” LP – this is the tenth year anniversary of the recording and it is the first time on LP.

What is the LP you dream of issuing/reissuing?
I have done enough and am really satisfied with all the work out and what is coming, i can’t ask for more, maybe the Azimuth 7 inch…

Arif Mardin
Dark Alleys

 
«It’s funny I bought this record somewhere and it took me years till I finally put it on the player, it became one of my favorite records, I love the blend there. ‘Dark Alleys’ is an good example, incredible drums by Steve Gadd.»

Os Incriveis
Estrada do Sol

 
«Estrada do Sol is a Jobim and Dolores Duran song, a Brazilian classic, but the original is a waltz, here Os Incriveis did a soulful rock 4/4 with Moog bass. It’s a highlight but there’s no bad track on this record, ‘Mingo, Nene e Risonho’, I highly recommend it.»

Tom Jobim
Aguas de Março

 
«This is the first recording of this song that divides Brazilian music in before and after “Aguas de Março”, it was made for a comedy anti dictatorship newspaper, it came out as a 7 inch, the other side is Joao Bosco. This version is much faster than the famous one, when we started A Point of View this was our opening track.»

Mitchell and Ruff
My Man’s Gone Now

 
«I love this duo. ‘My Man’s Gone Now’ shows well the duo, I love to have french horn on jazz and in this kind of small ensemble, it’s something that is really unique. I also love Jimmy Giuffre 3 with Paul Bley and Steve Swallow, it has this empty atmosphere.»

Guernica
Gyrotop

 
«Here I can use some japanese help, I started following the work of Koji Ueno, for me one of the greatest writers and arrangers in Japan. He made the music for Tarako advertisement (I love this song , you can check it here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juy45Z_7kx4) and it made me look for his music and work, he only have incredible records. This one is Guernica’s third album, they started as a synth “pop” duo with a russian/german 1930’s feel, after two records mr Ueno composed and arranged this masterpiece,1989. It’s all orchestral, splendid, I don’t know the name of the track because there’s nothing romanized written here it mentions ‘Gyrotop’ somewhere but I’m not sure this is the name of the song… Friends from Japan help please!»

YOU NEVER PLAYED LIVE IN PARIS BEFORE, WHY?
Paris is a city which I have missed all my life and my life is Paris. So I am glad to be here. I was never invited and I would never have been able to come to Paris just for a walk. With the inauguration of the Portinari painting (Guerre et Paix, at the Grand Palais museum, during spring 2014) and after being invited by Marta Suplicy, the Minister of Culture, I finally had an opportunity to come.

WHERE DO YOU COME FROM?
I come from Acre, a region located in the Amazonia, far from big cities, near Bolivia and Peru. I was born there, my father was a major from the military police. He became the first single-engine aircraft pilot in Acre – comme Saint Exupéry – and he discovered many corners of the Amazonia, places where nobody had ever been before.

DID HE TAKE YOU WITH HIM ON THOSE TRIPS?
Yes, and I wanted to become a pilot too, although I have always liked music. At the age of 5, my parents bought me a small accordion for Christmas and I began playing with it, simple things like «Tatalatatati»…

DID YOU LEARN BY YOURSELF ?
Yes, instinctively, with my sister who was three years older than me and played the piano at the house, «Doodoodoodidididoo»… Every morning, I used to wake up with the sound of her piano and, as soon as she had finished, I would play some myself. The piano was a Bechstein, made in Germany. My last birthday present was actually a Fritz Dobbert piano. He is a Brazilian of German origin who makes pianos in São Paulo. They are made with curupixa, a typical wood from the Acre.

WHAT WERE THE FIRST SONGS YOU LISTENED TO WHEN YOU WERE A CHILD? SONGS WITH AN AMAZONIAN TOUCH?
Yes! It was on the river bank, I got sentimental, melancholic but also nostalgic for the first time of my life. Those feelings were strange for a child who is either happy or sad most of the times.

WAS IT IN A CITY?
Yes, it is now the capital Rio Branco and even if it is small, it is filled with singular, strong characters. For instance, fashion doesn’t matter, we are not searching for the trendy things you can see on television. People from the Acre have their own style, their own life, their own originality. That is why I am so proud of being from there. Maybe this is what brought me to become a pilot at the age of 18, just like my father.

WHEN DID YOU ARRIVE IN RIO?
At 11, by boat, just after the Second World War, in 1945. My father had been offered a trip to any place in Brazil and he thought that Rio was the best place for me and my brothers to study.

WAS THE MUSICAL SCENE IN RIO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THE ONE IN THE AMAZONIA?
Yes, it was something else! A city with artists which I knew only through 78rpm records, but who were still in my memory. I liked songs such as “O Mar Negro, The Black Sea” by Georges Boulanger or «Ti di the dida diladidi !» a sort of jewish / gypsy melody which makes you feel oriental. My father had a collection of those records and I used to play them all the time.

2014, Paris. In bed or embed with João Donato?

WAS IT IN RIO THAT YOU DISCOVERED JAZZ?
No. At that time I was more into listening to Georges Boulanger and Fritz Kreisler, an Austrian violinist who played ‘Chagrin d’Amour’. With my high school classmates, we used to have lunch listening to records. One day, I heard Stan Kenton for the first time, and I was really impressed. He wasn’t the most popular, but his music was the strangest, the most exotic, dissonant music I had ever heard.

HOW DID YOU DECIDE TO BECOME A MUSICIAN? DID YOU MAKE THIS DECISION BY YOURSELF?
It happened when I failed the test to become a pilot : I was colorblind. I was 18. When the doctor told me that I couldn’t become a pilot, I thought «Well, I am a musician, I am going to continue in music, study and dedicate myself to music.» Luckily, my father supported me.

AT THAT TIME, WHAT BRAZILIAN PIANISTS WERE YOU LISTENING TO?
All those I shared my time with… I liked going to night clubs or listen to the radio because I didn’t have a TV yet. Most radios had their own bands, their own vocal groups, singers…

Young João Donato and his band at national radio.

ONE OF YOUR MAIN INFLUENCES WAS JOHNNY ALF, DID YOU KNOW HIM?
He was my friend when we were young. I met him when I was 15 or 16. He was my neighbour. He was a bit older. At that time I also knew Tom Jobim, João Gilberto …

YOU MET TOM JOBIM WHEN HE WAS THE ARTISTIC DIRECTOR FOR A RECORD COMPANY?
He gave me a list of songs, telling me that I had to play them. But the first time I actually recorded was for the flutist Altamiro Carrilho, on his first album. It was my first studio experience. I played the accordion on ‘Brejeiro’ with Ernesto Nazareth’s Choro. The choro is still very popular in Brazil. The first music I actually composed and recorded was with Luiz Bonfá on the “Bonfá” album. At that time, vinyl was still only on 10 inch.

YOU USED TO SPEND YOUR TIME WITH THE CREATORS OF BOSSA NOVA. HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO ENTER THE SINATRA-FARNEY FAN CLUB?
With Paulo Moura who I met in the street, we were neighbors and we both had vocal groups. At that time, vocal groups were trendy : the Starlights, the Pied Pipers, Les Double Six in Paris, Os Cariocas and João Gilberto’s Os Garotos da Lua in Brazil. I had one too : Os Namorados, with members from Lucio Alves’s Os Namorados da Lua. I went to many rehearsals with all those groups and I have always liked that kind of music : five people singing together, so beautiful with so many harmonies.

1957. João Donato and João Gilberto in the Rio’s streets.

IS THIS HOW YOU MET JOÃO GILBERTO?
I met him during the rehearsals of Garotas da Lua. It was in the Radio Tupis studios. One day someone announced the arrival of a young man from Bahia. The singers had to be real singers with strong voices but one of them had too low a voice. João Gilberto was brought in as a replacement. But when he came, we realized that his voice was even lower! Luckily this job wasn’t for him. So, he stayed in Rio, alone, and that’s how we became partners. Back then, I didn’t manage to adapt and wasn’t well received when I played, just like him. They found me too different, too «bizarre».

DO YOU STILL CONSIDER YOURSELF AS A MEMBER OF THE BOSSA NOVA MOVEMENT?
I have always made music my own way and therefore was not well received in most of the places I was playing at. All those bossa nova people were not well received either. Me, João Gilberto or Tom Jobim: none of us was welcome. But slowly, people started to get used to that sound and would like it more and more. At some point, João and I kept talking about how crazy and insane this world was, that People were stupid and knew more or less nothing about music… I remember we were invited to a week long show in Minas Gerais at a health resort. João said: «I will go there if Donato comes.» So we went together, him with the guitar and me with the piano. After the first set on the first night, the manager came to us and said : «Don’t worry about anything, money, traveling expenses or food, but please – “por favor”, don’t sing any more, don’t play again!» This is the type of experience we both had at the start of our careers. It was awful and we were terrible for the audiences as people were expecting something that they were more familiar with. Strong voices. Those first live experiences were a total disaster.

DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF AS A JAZZMAN?
The Donato style, that’s how people in Brazil describe my music. I like to avoid any classification: no categorizing, no way!

THAT’S THE DONATO STYLE?
I don’t have any style, I am just «Amazonic», a Acre homeboy, tropical, I don’t know…

WE ARE GOING TO SAY WHAT THE DONATO STYLE IS: IT IS THE VERY SAME POINT OF VIEW THAT THELONIOUS MONK HAS ON BEBOP!
I love bebop, I love Monk, I love bossa nova, I love jazz, I love latin music and I mix all those styles. I also like songs like ‘La Vie en Rose’. I compose my own songs. The Brazilian music critic Zuza Homem de Mello has compared me with Monk before.

SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT?
I like it, because his style is really unique, incomparable. You can’t copy that! To be compared with Monk means being also unique, because he sounds like nobody else. And I like to feel that I sound like nobody else. It is very important! To be perfectly honest, my favorite pianist is Horace Silver, the son of a Portuguese man from Cabo Verde : Horácio Tavares Ward da Silva. His mother was afro-american. Once, while I attended one of his workshops in Rio with a handful of people, he told me: «It’s funny, nobody came!» and I answered that people didn’t know how important he was.

Early 1960’s. Donato played trombone with Mongo Santamaria’s band, and two years later during a record session with Tom Jobim .

MONK HAS A VERY SPECIAL WAY OF COMPOSING, JUST LIKE YOU. ON YOUR COMPOSITIONS THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING A LITTLE BIZARRE, BIZARRE JAZZ, BOSSA NOVA BIZARRE, OR FUNK BIZARRE…
Ahaha it is «très bizarre». I try to reflect the feeling that I felt on the bank of the Amazone when I was a child: a combination of homesickness, melancholy and positive sadness, doucement. I try to keep that in my music. That doesn’t work every time but that is what I am looking for. When I listen to other people’s music, I try to obtain a painkiller effect, wholesome, beneficial, healthy and spiritual. That’s what I like in music.

YOU KEEP SAYING THAT MUSIC IS MADE TO CURE THE SPIRIT. IS IT YOUR MAIN PURPOSE?
It could be, for sure. To give more life, more longevity, more time to stay alive on the planet. Music takes you further, on longer roads… It even brings comfort to patients in hospitals if well used. But music can be anything, even fatal as Gilberto Gil said. There are a number of composers, music geniuses, who are considered dangerous when their music is heard on the wrong occasion. It can lead to extreme behavior: suicide, despair or eventually «the bad road». So being a genius doesn’t mean you belong to the good side of the things. You are a genius but you can be a madman too.

WHAT DID YOU LOOK FOR WHEN YOU LEFT BRAZIL FOR THE USA?
Freedom of expression. In Brazil I was clamped, I couldn’t play what I believed in. I found that American musicians were a lot closer from playing into this ideal of freedom and their music was really beyond what I played myself.

WHAT WERE YOUR FIRST MUSICAL FEELINGS WHEN YOU LANDED IN THE USA?
Sensational! I would go see all my idols play on stage, people like Horace Silver. We became friends and he came to Los Angeles to play the piano and help me understand ‘Django Juice’. I remember driving him back to the motel he was living in.

DID YOU GO TO SHELLY MANN’S CLUB?
Yes, I saw Sergio Mendes (Brasil 65) there, with Jorge Ben and Wanda Sá. I later asked Sergio Mendes permission to use his rhythm section and recorded an album with Bud Shank. Tião Neto was on bass, Chico Batera on drums and Rosinha de Valença on guitar. And I got another record, previously done in Brazil. It was originally called “Muito A Vontade”. I started looking for a label to put it out and showed it to Clare Fisher, Victor Feldman and all their friends from the music industry but nobody wanted it. Every time, they would tell me: «OK, OK, but», and when an American says «but»… That was until I met Richard Bock, one of the founders of Pacific Jazz who had worked with Gerry Mulligan, Shorty Rogers and Chet Baker. After listening to my record, he said : «I like it, but ahahaha… I can’t put it out just like this, you need to bring somebody else but wait, Bud Shank is coming here tomorrow, we will have him listen to it and if he likes it, you will work together. This will be a way for you to enter the label and then I will launch your record.» I said OK and returned home. The day after, Bock told me that Bud Shank had liked the album. We agreed on a recording session and eventually recorded “The piano of João Donato, the new sound of Brazil”. This is how I got a name in American studios.

SOME YEARS LATER YOU RECORDED WITH CLAUS OGERMAN, ANOTHER IMPORTANT MEETING?
Richard Bock put out “Muito A Vontade” but changed the title to “Sambou Sambou” – he thought it sounded better. Then Astrud Gilberto gave Claus Ogerman a copy and he called me from New York asking if I wanted to do a record with him. I was supposed to play basic piano parts and he would make arrangements with very beautiful strings. «Like Tom Jobim?» I said. «Yes, why not!» He asked me to write six songs, the other six would be taken from some Brazilian music album. João Gilberto was in town, so I went to see him at his place and we wrote some songs. That record is one of my most beautiful.

Seventies… with Gal Costa.

YOU SPOKE ABOUT MELANCHOLY EARLIER. DON’T YOU BELIEVE THAT THE MASTER IN TERMS OF STRING ARRANGEMENTS IS CLAUS OGERMAN?

Yes, he is wonderful, but I also like Johnny Mandel very much.

ARE YOU STILL IN TOUCH WITH HIM?
No, not too much, I saw him with Tommy Lipuma, who produced “A Bad Donato”, before I left America.

WHAT ABOUT THE “BAD DONATO” SESSIONS FOR BLUE THUMB?
It was a different story. Sergio Mendes who was a good businessman told me one day: «Let’s go to Japan. I have 2 bands, Brasil 66 and Bossa Rio, that are opening a show and we need a pianist. Ours cannot travel anymore.» So I took up the invitation and travelled with them for a week. In turned out that Bossa Rio was about to release a record in the US for Blue Thumb’s boss Bob Krasnow who was travelling with us. Bob loved my music and promised me a record release as soon as I returned to the USA, with my own tracks. So when I got back to the US I had kind of forgotten about it until percussionist Emil Richards contacted me saying that Bob Krasnow was looking for me and that I had to call him. When I did, he told me I could have all the instruments I wanted; that I could go to any music store, buy all I needed, bring it home and that when everything would be ready, we could start recording. Just like that! I decided to go to a record store and bought some LPs. I was given a lot of shit records that did not even sound like music until I discovered James Brown. I found his music quite simple, with repetitions and loops and I loved it. I decided to try and stick to James Brown’s music. They loved it and decided to call what I did “A Bad Donato”. Tommy Lipuma said the album had good reviews when it came out. Everybody said : «Waouwou! What is going on?» Even the singer Jacques Brel himself covered ‘The Frog’. His version spoke bad about the Flemish and became a political song.

WERE YOU INFLUENCED BY BANDS LIKE BANDA BLACK RIO, GERSON KING COMBO OR UNIÃO BLACK?
No, their music might sound similar but we never met.

AFTER “A BAD DONATO”, YOU WENT BACK TO BRASIL AND RECORDED ANOTHER RECORD FOR ODEON. FOR US, IT’S AN INCREDIBLE RELEASE, A BRASILIAN FUNK CLASSIC, BUT MUCH MORE ACOUSTIC AND BIZARRE: “QUEM É QUEM”.
Très bizarre because it was the first time I sang a song.

YOU NEVER FELT THE NEED TO WRITE LYRICS BEFORE?
When I came back from the USA in 1972, I was going to do a new record in Brasil when Sao Paulo singer Agostinho Dos Santos told me: «Are you going to do another piano record? If I were you, I would add lyrics. Singers like me could sing your songs. In Brasil, nobody sings your songs because they have no lyrics!» I thought he was right and decided to start doing some singing. I got input by song writers like Dorival Caymmi, my brother Lysias Ênio, the Valle brothers, Paulo Sergio Pinheiro, João Carlos Pádua, the Borges brothers and a whole bunch of others.

ON THAT ALBUM, THERE IS THIS INCREDIBLE SONG ‘CALA A BOCA MENINO’, WHO IS THAT «MENINO»?
It’s actually a typical folk song from Bahia. I was in the studio doing some experiments like «Dadidoo loopdadidoo» and did not really know where that would take me when Nana Caymmi, Dorival’s daughter, started singing «Cala a boca menino gné gné gné. Que seu pai logo vê gné gné gné…» I asked her what it was and she said it was one of her father’s songs so I called Dorival to confirm and he said : «No, it’s not but I take responsibility for it.»

Donato, a great composer.

YOUR MUSIC IS BUILT ON LOOPS LIKE THOSE OF MONK. DO YOU LOVE USING THOSE LOOPS?
I love loops. I don’t know. Stan Kenton had something with «riffs »: Blues in riff, Intermission riff, Unison Riff’, everything was a «riff» for him: «Tiloodida tiloodidooda tiloodida tiloodidooda tiloodida tiloodidooda tada doo! doo doo! Again!» It was his thing, he found it beautiful. I like it too: full measures, repeated several times. He would change the orchestration every now and then, like in a ‘Bolero’. Many people think that Ravel is only repeating measures on his Bolero but they actually change many times.

IN YOUR MUSIC, AS IN MONK’S, AREN’T THEY JUST FALSE REPETITIONS?
Yes they have a good effect but they do not really repeat. My repetitions change as on Ravel’s Bolero.

YESTERDAY, DURING THE SHOW, YOU SPOKE ABOUT CLAUDE DEBUSSY AS THE GREATEST MUSICIAN. DUKE ELLINGTON USED TO SAY THE SAME THING.
Yes, for me Debussy the greatest. I have always been influenced by classical music, I had a great passion for Debussy. He gave me the strongest musical emotions. I want to visit his house, near Paris, see where he was born, where he lived. He was a huge musician. Ravel is one of my favorite, just after Debussy.

YESTERDAY YOU PLAYED A SONG INSPIRED BY DEBUSSY WITH EXCERPTS FROM ‘ESTRADA DO SOL’. DID YOU DO IT ON PURPOSE?
No, I improvise a lot in my music and «Taaaa nanana tanana tanana ninana» comes from Debussy ! He was the first modern composer to play that type of measures like «Laaaladidiladidalad», that is what we play today and he had done it for a long time.

HOW WAS THE «MODERNITY» OF DEBUSSY?
His harmonies, his colors, his expressions. I am currently working on a piece called ‘Suite Sinfônica Popular’ and I always look at his scores, trying to enter his music with mine, without changing it or interfere, I want to try and create something.

IS THAT THE MAIN PROJECT YOU ARE CURRENTLY WORKING ON?
Yes, I have been on it for a long time. I have spent more that 20 years checking his music and playing them on the piano.

HOW DID YOU DISCOVER CLAUDE DEBUSSY?
During my teenage years. When I started listening to his music, it was like falling in love with somebody: you don’t know why.

HAS HE BEEN FOLLOWING YOU DURING YOUR LIFE?
Yes. Actually, there was this particular piano teacher who used to tell me, when I played something that was not a known score, that there was something of Debussy in my music, something of the same standard.

thanks to Stéphane de Langenghagen