Matt Temple is a living encyclopedia when it comes to South African Grooves. From Jive, Disco or the incredible local Jazz scene, the Matsuli Blog (with Matt Temple in London, and Chris Albertyn in South Africa) has been over the years a priceless source of information for anybody interested in the subject. The quality of its releases has been one of the most consistent of recent years from the Jazzy Disco sound of Dick Khoza to the incredible Spiritual Jazz sound of Batsumi or Sathima Bea Benjamin. Here’s the story behind this phenomenal record archiving experience.

When did you start digging records?
I started buying records in the mid-seventies when I was a teenager but this wasn’t really digging. I would be saving up money and buying albums I read about or friends recommended.

What LPs did you buy at first? Do you still listen to them?
The first LPs I got were albums by the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin. Pretty soon I moved to punk, post-punk, ska and reggae LPs by the Clash, Specials, Joy Division, Bob Marley and others. I’ve probably heard these LPs too much but I do still listen to them from time to time.

Do you have a particular style or favorite period?
I listen to a lot of music from many different periods and genres. But when it comes to collecting I particularly like Congolese rumba from the 1960s, East African musiki wa dans from the seventies, West African latin and manding sounds as well as lots of tropical styles from cumbia, salsa through to reggae and funk. The period 1960-1980 is key.

Are you still digging’, buying vinyl, visiting record shops?
I visit second hand stores in London regularly but the internet has normalized pricing so chance findings are rare. I love visiting new record stores, especially when travelling, mostly believing that I might find something of interest. I was recently in Cartagena and picked up a great stack of cumbia and salsa originals.

What was your first release on Matsuli?
This was Dick Kloza’s Chapita LP in June 2010.

 
Why did you choose this name: Matsuli?
It was based on the South African Motella label design and is a combination of people’s names.

What could be your editorial/aesthetic line?
Music archaeologists bringing lost musical recordings back to life. And we focus on bringing back original albums, rather than compilations.

How to describe your work? Memory? historian? journalist? witness?
We are on the one hand archivists bringing back to the public important musical works that have been lost, and on the other hand curators as we selecting specific recordings that will be commercially viable.

Do you think Batsumi, the mythical combo of Soweto (you released their two recordings of the mid-1970s), is one of the best musical synthesis between local rhythmic and harmonic jazz? How this soundtrack combines spirituality, with the writings of Frantz Fanon and the impulses of Steve Biko, the soul-funk grooves and the more traditional melodic lines?
As archivists we are left with physical artefacts in the form of vinyl LPs, or master tapes. There are many groups missing from recognition, groups that for whatever reason were unable to record their material. But Batsumi are an incredible group and their albums – together with those from Malombo, Xoliso, Malopoets and others – mark a high-point for indigenous afro jazz in South Africa.

Batsumi Group Shot
 

“African Songbird”, Sathima Bea Benjamin’s LP, is one of the biggest holy grail that you have reissued. All the spirit of this session of homecoming is reflected in ‘Africa’, a love song and a political declaration. The same year she gave birth to Tsidi, now female rapper Jean Grae. How did you work with this singer? Do you see a sign of fate that she died just after this reissue?
We signed a contract with her and Rashid Vally who sponsored the original sessions. Matsuli launched the reissue over three days in Cape Town where I had a chance to spend time with her, talking about the past and the future. It was very sad to learn of her death just a few months after we had re-issued the LP. At the time I wrote this reflection: “Hi Rashid, is it true?”, “Yes Matt she is on the other side.” With what feels like a physical blow to the body I try to make sense of it all. Barely a month earlier I was in Cape Town for what was to be Sathima’s swan song: Observatory celebrating the reissue of her 1976 masterpiece African Songbird that I’d just reissued on my label. Although suffering from flu Sathima commanded the room with the voice of an angel. The electric atmosphere and crowded space only enhanced the palpable sense of being in the presence of greatness. As we mark Sathima’s birthday today I’m still trying to make sense of it all. Her long struggle to be heard, never playing on her African roots and resolutely uncommercial with a complete commitment to classic jazz idioms. And a big shadow cast by her partner Abdullah Ibrahim, the challenges of motherhood exacerbated by exile and an uneasy homecoming from the Chelsea Hotel in New York where she said she felt most at home. Sathima had the unique ability to strike first at your heart, not unlike the experience of hearing Billie Holiday for the first time. She cites hearing Billie’s performance in Lady Sings the Blues as being pivotal to her development as a singer. And Sathima’s original compositions like Africa and Nations in Me eschew the commonly prescribed categories of race and nationhood propagated by Apartheid. It’s a powerful combination. Her final performance at Tagore’s was highly anticipated and packed shoulder-to-shoulder. Some initial microphone issues before Sathima took to the stage, backed by the Hilton Schilder Trio, to perform one more time her classic songbook tunes, laments and the anthem Africa. “I’ve been gone much too long/and I’m glad to say that I’m home, I’m home to stay…” I was so happy for her despite the knowledge that perhaps this might all be too late. We spoke late into the evening at the Labia Cinema on Sunday and at the Mahogany Room on Tuesday about taking this forward. Too late, and now she’s on the other side. And that’s our lament: that home is still the other side.

In the liner notes of Inhlupeko Soul Jazzmen, it says: «South African jazz players felt a strong affinity with John Coltrane, who had died only a couple of years earlier.» Indeed, this record could have been also recorded on Blue Note or Prestige. How do you explain this relationship, this influence with American jazz? How South African could buy this kind of records?
South Africa was not cut off – local companies reissued jazz and Blue Note, Prestige and Riverside LPs were also imported. As the notes suggest American jazz represented an urban modern and proudly black articulation of identity. It is not at all surprising that under the social constraints of Apartheid that jazz represented the idea of an identity free of those mental and physical chains.

At the same time, other musicians were forced into exile, such as Blue Notes or Chris McGregor. Is this a scene you want to document too, as does the Ogun label?
Ogun has done an outstanding job of documenting this particular area. One artist whose recordings are sadly out of print is Johnny Dyani – it would be great to produce a box set of his material that came out on various European labels.

In the future is “Tshona” by Pat Matshikiza & Kippie Moketsie, a possible reissue? What about Dollar Brand’s “Mannenberg” or “Underground in Africa”?
Tshona and Mannenberg are very well know and have been reissued a number of times. They are not that difficult to find. Tshona was in fact Kippie’s answer to Mannenberg’s success. Underground in Africa and Shikiza Matshikiza (Pat and Kippie’s second album together) are definitely on the radar though.

Pops Mohamed in seventies…

Black Disco
Echo On The Delay

In another vein, just as spiritual, you publish nowadays a LP with Pops Mohammed: “Black Disco”. Could you tell us more about the story of this record? The history of this band? What about their 2 other LP’s?
The sleeve notes written by Gwen Ansell, author of Soweto Blues, tells it much better than me: Just before the first Black Disco album was made, Rashid Vally’s As-Shams label (which also handled The Dynamics) had released Abdullah Ibrahim’s Mannenberg. Mohamed already knew bassist Sipho Gumede from Dorkay House. At Vally’s Kohinoor record store, he was introduced to Capetonian Coetzee, still in town after the Mannenberg recording session. “Rashid said: ‘This is Pops—he’s a new guy and he’s got compositions. Why don’t you guys talk…?’” Mohamed remembers. A vehicle was hired to bring his Yamaha from his home, and the first Black Disco album was cut: a trio with no drummer. He describes his earlier formations as “experiments”—Black Disco gave Mohamed his direction. After Night Express, he went on to become a co-founder of Movement in the City, with Cape Town drummer Monty Webber. “The name was code for let’s fight the system. It was a very dark time for us, personally and politically, and their two albums including Black Teardrops (another title the censor didn’t like) came from that emotional place.”

How could such a group like that exist , survive, play during Apartheid ?
There was a strong music scene under Apartheid. Record companies were keen to exploit the newly urbanised black population in the late 1960s and seventies. The real problem for groups was venues in which to play and record companies who would release their material. Things became a lot more difficult after the Soweto uprising in 1976 and the military-dominated government of PW Botha through the eighties

Ndikho Xaba and the Natives is part of an aesthetic commitment. More broadly, the system of segregation still very important, (present ?), between the lines, in your LPs . Can we read a political process? Point of view?
Our release programme can be read as a political statement, but I think reducing music to such interpretations reduces the transcendental power of music and assumed identity. It’s the transcendence that holds the power.

Do you think jazz is a soundtrack of emancipation?
Music has the power to transcend but emancipation from economic and cultural barriers requires a lot more work.

How do you decide on the choice of reissues?
We try to identify lost South African recordings that are in demand in second-hand circles.

What could be the label’s leitmotif?
The track ‘Africa’ by Sathima Bea Benjamin.

Chris Albertyn, Sathima Bea Benjamin and Matt Temple
 

What is the Matsuli LP you are prouder? why?
“African Songbird” – its beauty and the personal connection made with Sathima…

The memory of this scene, you revive, it is still present in the South African youth?
There is a strong renaissance of jazz and many younger players are taking the journey forward.

Are you listening to the new South African scene, jazz and soul? And is it connected with the new wave of jazz in London and UK, including children and heirs of the first generation African immigrant?
I listen to a lot of the younger South African jazz players but not that much soul. I am always on the lookout for unique music. Many of the new jazz generation have started touring to Japan, the USA and Europe. We also have British musicians like Shabaka Hutchings who has recently recording a new album in South Africa. So there is a lot of cross-fertilisation. I’m sure that the South African musicians would like more exposure but increasingly as a result of the gentrification of cities like London it is difficult to sustain a strong jazz circuit.

“Night on Earth” is a record session of kora. Could you tell us more about Derek Gripper, who has produced some of South Africa’s most extraordinary musical works, fusing the country’s disparate creative traditions with styles from around the world?
I first heard Derek Gripper’s album of kora compositions played on the guitar a few years ago and I was astounded by his playing and approach. We spoke at length about an album of him playing compositions by Philip Tabane of Malombo, or including other up and coming South African musicians re-interpreting South African standards. Who knows we may still explore this further. But we took a risk to release something different from our usual agenda in order for people to appreciate his work. And slowly he is now getting further recognition, having played recently with some of his musical heroes in Mali. It’s something very unusual and therein was the appeal.

Ndikho
Xaba Shwabada

This record is a bit out of general aesthetics of Matsuli catalogue: it is a current production in which we play themes Toumani Diabate on kora … Is it a way that you keep pursuing?
We are willing to take chances and we loved Derek Gripper’s LP so much we wanted to release it. For a long time, we have also sought to find ways we can bring some of the newer jazz onto our label. This is ongoing.

Nowadays, there are many LP labels who follow as you the model, « Less Is more », I mean more quality even if it’s more expensive… but in the same time, there are also another « new » LP market, with major companies come-back and other labels, who prefer to sell cheaper. Is it the (re)creation of two camps for the LP?
We try to keep our costs as low as possible but with very specific production standards. I’m starting to see quite a few re-issue companies taking the low cost route with certain production values being compromised. I suppose we try to strike a balance between affordability and quality. We are seeing major labels starting to lean heavily on production plants with smaller labels such as ourselves being delayed in our release schedule. Whilst there are many people who are choosing vinyl because it is in vogue I am confident that our niche audience will always stick in vinyl as opposed to paying subscriptions to technology companies for the right to listen to streams.

There are more and more reissues of old LPs, and more and more record labels (major or indie) now release their new artists on LP, or EP. Do you think that the LP reissue market could ever reach saturation point?
I think that good music will always prevail amongst our customers, so it’s really important to keep our standards high. The saturation will come with sub-standard material…

Have you received many negative answers on some of the LPs, artists, unreleased tapes, you were trying to reissue?
Not yet, although licensing and claims of ownership have stopped us from considering some specific albums.

What are your next releases?
We want to issue one of the early Harari LPs and then we are also looking at an exciting project of 78s where we hope to compile a number of albums around certain themes. Most of this material has never been released outside of its original appearance on 78 shellac.

What is the LP you dream of reissuing?
The first South African jazz LP by Sathima Bea Benjamin – this was cut to acetate but is now long lost.

CHECK THE BLOG

photo : Maxim François / Vision Fugitive

 

Cofounder of Strata East Records, Stanley Cowell started his career in Detroit, in the sixties, before moving to New York. There, the pianist played with great jazzmen, both from the young generation and the older one like Max Roach with whom he recorded an LP. After the great seventies decade, he decided to teach but never stopped playing and recording. For us, he goes back to his story while he will publish a brand new album in may, focusing on the Civil Rights movement.

 
 

Did you grow up in a musical environment?
Yes. Though my mother often sang around the house, my father played a little violin and piano, and all my sisters took piano lessons for about six years, there were no professional musicians in my immediate family beside me. A niece, Michelle, became a professional lounge singer and entertainer with a local Toledo group called the Murphy’s, who toured the Holiday Inn circuit in the US for several years.

How did the piano come into your life? And the jazz?
My parents seemed to like and listen to as many types as were available in my formative years at home: popular songs, 18th and 19th century European classical, blues, gospel, hymns and other church related music. We always had a good radio, record players, and we had a television set by 1949. They seemed less interested in the favorite music of my teenage years, rhythm and blues, and later, modern jazz.

Which music did you listen to in the 1960s?
I heard the classical piano music my two older sisters and I practiced, our dance music, blues, rhythm ‘n blues and jazz on the juke box at my Dad’s restaurant, the hymns and church musics from various churches in the neighborhood; the good jazz, R & B and blues records that found there way from the restaurant to the house; blues singers like Muddy Waters, Howling Wolf, Little Walter, Big Bill Broonzy; the growing number R & B groups like Clyde McFatter & the Midnighters, Orioles, Diablos, at night on the radio station WLAC from Nashville, Tennessee. These were the musics of my youth until I discovered bebop and modern jazz at age 13.

Who were your reference pianists?
Art Tatum came to my house once when I was six years old (1947). He was visiting family and friends and encountered my father, who invited him to our house. My father asked Art to play piano for me. Art said that he would like for me to play first. I played a piece from Book 3 of a popular piano study series, John Thompson. Art then played a Rodgers & Hart song, “You Took Advantage of Me.” That was my once and only “live” hearing of Art Tatum. I never wanted to sound like Tatum, but I have had to develop the technical ability to imitate him in certain “homage” performances since the 1980s. But in the 60s, my influences were McCoy Tyner, Cecil Taylor, Bill Evans, Wynton Kelly, and Phineas Newborn. I liked Andrew Hill, Chick Corea, Keith Jarrett and Herbie Hancock, and considered them my peers.

Trio, 1959

Your professional debuts: how was the musical « scene » in Michigan?
I chose to defer New York a while longer for the opportunity to finish my master’s at nearby University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, majoring in piano performance. I attended Michigan starting January of 1965, and again I was immersed in studying piano, practicing and studying classical music by day, but playing jazz by night. The venue for jazz soon became six nights-a-week at The Town Bar, Ann Arbor. I was featured pianist with bassist Ron Brooks’ Trio. Ron Brooks’ previous pianist had been Bob James, who at that time was incorporating a great deal of freedom and experimentation into the trio. That base was the perfect situation to which I contributed, building the trio into a tight nucleus that attracted musicians and audiences from Detroit, Flint, and Lansing, Michigan, as well as Northern Ohio. As the political and social upheaval of the Sixties was being felt and expressed in the music most intensely then, The Town Bar became a hotbed of radical and revolutionary music making, often enjoined by the visiting avant garde artists from the area. Many of the guests who sat-in to play were from The Detroit Artists Workshop, founded by poet and radical thinker John Sinclair and his wife, Leni.
I began to link more and more with musicians of The Detroit Artists Workshop: trumpeter/composer Charles Moore, composer Jim Semark, bassist John Dana, and drummers Ron Johnson and Danny Spencer. We hosted and participated in concerts with the New York and Chicago avant garde: Archie Shepp, Marion Brown, Roscoe Mitchell and Joseph Jarman from The Art Ensemble of Chicago, emanating from the American Association of Creative Musicians. Initially, we were barely tolerated by Detroit’s classical bebop-oriented veteran musicians, but given the social climate of frustration among blacks, artists and young people, we and they knew we were a part of the forces of change. We were eventually accepted and joined in our efforts by some of the local professionals like trombonist George Bohanon and pianist Kirk Lightsey.
Ironically, in the midst of the experimentation and rhetoric of radicalism, I achieved my goal, I learned Bach’s “Goldberg” Variations, performed my masters recital consisting of Bach’s Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue in D minor, Schubert’s Sonata in A, D. 959, Chopin’s F minor Ballade, and Ravel’s Le Tombeau de Couperin, and I received my master’s degree in performance in the spring of 1966. This accomplished, I returned briefly to Toledo before finally moving to Manhattan’s midtown far westside by early August.

Stanley Cowell Trio
“Blues For The Vietcong”
 

Why did you decide to leave for New York?
I came to New York try my skills alongside my musical heroes, Max, Miles, Art Blakey, Mingus, etc.

What did that change in your life? Your career ?
To be hired to play in the bands of my heroes and to travel the world performing became my career and changed my life.

In the 1960s, you were playing with strong leaders: Roland Kirk, Max Roach, Bobby Hutcherson, Marion Brown, Harold Land. What did they explain, transmit or give to you?
They each gave me the opportunity to learn their music and offered me encouragement to discover my musical personality–to play from my heart and soul.

You were associated with the “new thing” scene and nevertheless you published your first record in a classic piano trio formula. Did you separate those two aspects of your career : as a sideman and as a leader?
I had choices as to which style, era, direction, political influence, I might want to pursue as a sideman or as a leader. The « new thing » was about protest and politics for me ; whereas the audiences for which I often played preferred more traditional sounds.

You seem to prefer smaller bands and more particularly the trio. Why? What does that bring to a pianist and composer like you?
It offers a challenge to me to play more interactively with the bassist and drummer ; to debug compositional structures and ideas that could be for bigger ensembles in the future.

During Strata East record sessions, 1970s

You wrote “Travelin man” and played it in 1969 on your first record as a leader. You went on recording and playing quite a few more versions of it. Can it be considered as your anthem? Are you the « travelin man »?
Yes, yes, yes ! The vision for it came in a dream, though.

What about the UK recording ‘Blues For The Viet Cong’? Why were you in Europe at that time and how long did you stay?
I was on tour with Charles Tolliver in the quartet, « Music Inc. » and we stayed for about one month.

How (and when) did you meet Charles Tolliver?
We met at a rehearsal at Max Roach’s house because he was forming a new quintet. We became members of that band in 1967.

Why did you create Strata East together?
We created Strata-East Records to become our
own producers and distributors of our music, and to help other artist-producers control their own musical destinies.

“Effi” from ‘Members, Don’t Git Weary’ (1968)
Written by Stanley Cowell
 

What rôles did each of you have in the label?
Charles became more the person who handled finances, and I became more the expansionist who maintained communications with the growing number of artist-producers who affiliated contractually with SER. We both maintained relations with the media outlets on behalf of the company, and we stressed the idea to the artist-producers that all of us become promotional persons for SER as we toured and performed.

What was the philosophy of this collaborative label?
The concept was that of a condominium. Charles and I created the corporation–in other words, we owned the building. The artist-producers owned their recording(s)–in other words, they owned space in the building. A legal contract agreement was mutually executed by SER and the artist-producers.

During the last twenty years or so, Strata East has become an important reference for the younger génération of Jazz aficionados. How do you explain this late success?
The success was due to hard work by Charles and myself in handling the fabrication and pressing, shipping, getting distribution, radio airplay, and expanding the catalog. SER’s financial arrangement with its artist-producers was revolutionary compared to the traditional record company : 70% of net sales went to the artist-producers. They actually had the power had they been able to come together harmoniously with a development plan.

Would a label like Strata East have more chances of existing today?
Probably.

Do you believe that now, in 2015, Young musicians would have the same difficulties to become known or get signed, or has the internet totally changed the situation?
It seems to me the internet is the music business now for creative music, known as « jazz. » Pop music still operates in the old manner, signing artists and exploiting them via the new media possibilities.

Back then, you formed a team with Charles Tolliver : Music Inc… What was the aesthetic ambition?
The aesthetic ambition was to compose, play and extend the music of our great influences, mentors and innovators, while keeping the distinguishing features of the jazz tradition. Cecil McBee, Charles and I, each contributed music to the Music Inc. repertoire.

After the end of Music Inc, did you continue to see and play with Charles?
I played with Charles occasionally. I wanted to get off the road so I curtailed my touring to teach.

In 2015, you will be in concert with him for the opening night of the Banlieues Bleues festival in Paris. What will be the program, the spirit of the concert?
Powerful rhythmic expression and virtuosity in the style of our collective recordings and performances will be the spirit of this concert.

Both you and Charles Tolliver are somewhat underestimated by the general public, but very well known by musicians. How do you explain this gap?
Jazz and creative, improvised music as a whole has not been a popular music for many years. The sincere, knowledgable jazz fan obviously does know about us, otherwise we would not continue to be invited to record and perform. We have not declined in our skills but have become seasoned, like fine wine.

What about the Piano Handscapes project with Strata-East? Did the idea of 5 pianists playing together come from you?
Pianist, Larry Willis, suggested this idea, and it happened around the same time as other same-instrument collectives began to form in New York.

The whole Superfly Records team loves the tunes where you use the Thumb Piano (“Travellin’ Man” on your solo piano LP, the killer “Smilin’ Billy Suite” on The Heath Brothers album…)! When did you discover the thumb piano? Were you the first to introduce it in jazz records?
My sister, Dolores, gave it to me sometime in the late 1960s. I played it in the Music Inc. band, and entertained myself in hotel rooms as I traveled the world performing. I have used it for encores, on afro-pop and calypso type songs, and with the Heath Brothers accompanying some soft ballads.

You also released ‘Regeneration’, a more soul oriented LP… Why this title?
I was interested in world music and wanted to bring together some of my colleagues who played non-Western instruments, folk music, and jazz.

How did the session take place? And why did you not renew this type of experience with larger bands as opposed your former, smaller bands?
I had the freedom to create and produce what I wanted on Strata-East label but I wanted to improve small ensemble playing with traditional bands, work on my soloing in that context, and bring my composing skills more to the forefront.

In the 1970s you played and recorded a lot. And then suddenly, you stopped recording… What lays behind that choice? What changed?
I made a recording for ECM Records, and made four records for the Galaxy label (Fantasy-Prestige). Then I began teaching in the City University of New York system at Lehman College. I made this decision for the financial security that would allow me to marry and raise a daughter, Sienna. Consequently, I had the option not to take every gigs that was offered. I could avoid the smoky clubs, the lat-night life, and the negatives that life style could produce–health issues, etc.

You chose to teach jazz: what we can do, what we owe and what we are passing on? Is there anything that cannot be taught ?
I have a university master’s degree in music as a classical pianist, studied composition, music history and theory, but studied and learned to play and write jazz on my own. So, I was able to teach music history as well as jazz courses. It takes a person with certain acquired skills to transmit knowledge about any subject. I thought I had that potential, so when I was offered the professorship in 1981, I began learning something important to the transmission of the great arts.
If we have the patience, knowledge and wisdom from experience, we can teach jazz or any type of music or art. We cannot necessarily teach the finer points of creativity, style, sensitivity, compassion, value. But we can point the student(s) in that direction. It is up to their evolution and development of skills that will lead them to be able to personalize their craft.

What look to you take on new generations of jazzmen?
The skill level is high in many areas of the art of jazz. Of course, there are so many many branches and styles in the music today–admixtures, global influences, technology, etc.

Why has your music always found its roots in the blues?
I heard it as a child in my house and through my bedroom wisdom at night from a nightclub across the way. « Race » records were the popular source of music in my community. My father catered to musicians in his restaurant and later at is motel. He brought musicians to our home–including Art Tatum. Yes, blues inflection and form still influence my music, tempered by my other cultural and musical experiences.

Do you believe it is still the cement (unconscious) of the musical community in the US?
I think not as much as it was in the 20th century. There are so many students and performers of jazz who come from diverse cultures. Consequently, blues does not express what they feel, nor does it express what they want to express. All artists may be challenged like never before with the wide array of choices and directions. The question remains : How do I personalize this ?

Sometimes, during your career, you were contemplated for bringing in elements from the other Afro-American or African communities. Have you ever felt like you were making a “diasporic” music?
Perhaps, I will again. Right now, though, I am more interested in live electronic processing of my music as is heard on my recent SteepleChase CD, Welcome To This New World. I must mention that I have created a number of diverse works for orchestra, brass ensembles, woodwind quintet, choir, and electronic music since 1988, which have never been recorded. They are available to listen for free on my Google drive at should anyone be interested: https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B2EgAWPq8mJqUHQxWklyR2c1b28/edit

You have just recorded a new record built around the civil rights movement in the USA. Do you think the musicians, through their compositions, are good witnesses of their time ?
Well, we try ! I suppose the real answer to that will not be known for many years.

How did you compose the repertory of this record ? Was it your idea?
The idea came from two sources : The first came when Vision Fugitive producer, Philippe Ghielmetti , met with me in the US in 2005. He proposed a « Juneteenth » solo project for the label he was producing for at that that time ; the second came from a professor very knowledgeable of African American history suggesting that a composition written for the sesquicentennial of the Emancipation Proclamation, announcing the freeing of slaves in the US, would be an interesting project to undertake during my 2007 Rutgers University sabbatical. I did not pursue that idea for several years but began to compose it 2012, for concert band, choir, percussion and electro-acoustic sounds. Of course, the work was too large to be performed or recorded before I retired from the university. However, I was able to make a solo piano reduction of most of the score, titled, « Junteenth Emancipation Suite », and this is what I recorded recently for Philippe, along with a 17-minute improvised « recollection » of the suite and a couple of other pertinent songs.

His next record, on Vision Fugitive

Why did you decide to cover “We Shall Overcome”? What does this song represent for you?
It is the anthem of the civil rights era ! It represents faith, the ideal of non-violence, and solidarity with suffering peoples around the world who are trying to free themselves from oppression. Of course, some times this process can morph into violence. Being a jazz musician known for rearranging songs (obscuring the obvious) in order to present them in a new and creative way, I played the melody as the bass part of the song, reharmonized it, and improvised solos above it.

And you linked it to a gospel… Why the gospel? Is it the voice of speechless people?
The gospel piece was included on the « Juneteenth » CD to suggest and reaffirm the power of faith that played such an important role in the civil rights struggle in the US. Gospel and the spiritual song have been a powerful expression of speechless people/disenfranchised people in the US ever since black Americans applied their musics to the theoretical promises found in the Judeo-Christian religious texts.

 
“Travelin Man”, his classic

At the time of the civil rights movement, you were 20 years old. Were you involved in this fight?
No, not directly. I did not march in the South. But as a black person I felt the anger and frustration, and sympathized with those directly involved in the struggle. Having been born and raised in the North, Toledo, Ohio to be exact, and being in already integrated schools, and not sensing most of the discrimination or bias from white Americans, I led a studious life devoted to music, within a successful and harmonious family, in a predominantly black community. At the age of 19 until 20, I was a student in Austria, far from the civil rights struggle. Upon my return to the US, I became much more aware of the racial divide, discrimination and racism. If you follow the news today with the recent shootings of unarmed black males by police, it may seem that there has been no progress. Be watchful ! Despite having elected a black president, there are racists individuals, anti-black groups, and powerful people that resent the progress of African Americans. And they continue to work to undermine the milestones in economic, legislative and political areas.

Was the jazz community in the front line of the civil rights movement?
Certain ones like Billie Holiday by singing « Strange Fruit », Max Roach, Charles Mingus and Archie Shepp in their famous suites and compositions expressed their indignation with racism and their support of the civil rights movement. They were my influences and mentors toward including a protesting and political bent to some of my works and musical endeavors.

What is the role or the place of a musician in society: the griot? The watchtower? The activist?
I would reply : « all of the above. » We are not just artists, we are citizens of our respective nations, and ultimately, citizens of the world. In our own personal ways, and when necessary, in unity with others, we should add our « fuel » to the cleansing fire against injustice!

On June 19th, 1865 slaves of Texas were the first ones to become “emancipated”, Free ! 150 years later, the anniversary is still officially celebrated. 150 years later, were all the problems settled ?
Obviously not !

Thank you for letting me express somethings regarding my life in music, especially jazz, and my feelings on art, life and injustice. Looking forward to returning to Paris in March with Charles Tolliver and the Strata-East All Stars.

this interview is also published, in a shorter version, in Jazz News.